The WATCHDOG - Views, statements, and opinions expressed are the author's and do not necessarily represent those of the Secessionist Medals website > Questions and Discussions Regarding Authenticity
The Bavarian Mint and Goetz Medals
Haarmann:
Over the past two or three years my cohort and I have been watching an ever increasing influx of questionable Goetz struck medals enter the market. These are not the restrikes that have been made apparent in such auctions as Hirsch Auktion 272, Nachprägungen, pp.242, but rather pieces, usually 36mm silver, being sold as authentic Goetz struck examples while certain diagnostics suggest otherwise.
One of the easiest diagnostics is the absence of any mint edge-stamp created during the minting process by way of a collar and higher than usual striking pressures. In the case of the Munich Mint, struck pieces are edge-stamped with BAYER HAUPTMÜNZAMT, BAYER HAUPTMÜNZAMT FEINSILBER, etc., etc.. The material we are seeing lacks the mint's edge-stamp while the edges have been lathed to the correct diameter. We believe this indicates restriking in a private mint and likely at a later date post 1950, Karl's year of death.
Yes, Karl created some early medals and all original coin pattern sets by way of private mints, this is documented, but where are all of these later K-# examples being minted if not by the Bavarian mint? And who was creating them? Markus Wesche has been studying the minting numbers for Goetz medals from Bavarian Mint records. These are the only examples sanctioned by Karl while he was alive. I certainly hope his study comes to fruition in the near future.
So my question to the rest of you, Will every single coin and/or medal produced by the Bavarian Mint, or any mint for that matter, carry a mint edge-stamped identifier?
Sgt.Schultz:
Hmmmmm...here's another twist. I purchased an AR 36m Goetz medal within the month that isnt seen very often. It has the edge lettering, but the lettering was not centered. Instead it was slightly sloped, and right along the edge of the rim. (I've seen hundreds of edge lettered Goetz struck medals--never seen one like this) Dont want to get paranoid, but it crossed my mind that perhaps the next step would be an attempt to fabricate the edge lettering if that became the "end-all" diagnostic.
Speaking of Wesche, I was fascinated by the report he put together regarding mintages of various AR Goetz medals in various sizes. One stuck out in particular, K-288, Baron Von Richthoven. Going from memory, Wesche reported that there were 2,400 AR 36m struck, and 650 AR 60m examples. In 15 years of close Goetz study of auctions/inventories, etc, I have NEVER seen a 60m offered. Has Anyone?? I find this very strange.
Haarmann:
There are obvious attempts already in place to counterfeit the Munich edge-stamp. One is easy to spot as the letters are larger and more blocked, really, just very clumsy looking.
Kienast didn't mention anything about 60mm silver K-288's either. I would imagine some got melted down for bread at the beginning, or especially the end, of the Weimar period. ;)
Henry Scott Goodman:
Hi all,
I have an ugly xerox copy of the Wesche article from The Medal several years ago. I'll scan it and then get with Haarmann to put it on the server. Maybe SM should think about adding a "Reading Room" to the forum where we can all upload material for the benefit of all. Just a thought.
HSG
Bill:
--- Quote from: Henry Scott Goodman on April 24, 2013, 10:28:31 PM ---Hi all,
I have an ugly xerox copy of the Wesche article from The Medal several years ago. I'll scan it and then get with Haarmann to put it on the server. Maybe SM should think about adding a "Reading Room" to the forum where we can all upload material for the benefit of all. Just a thought.
HSG
--- End quote ---
Do you have the full reference for the article?
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