The WATCHDOG - Views, statements, and opinions expressed are the author's and do not necessarily represent those of the Secessionist Medals website > Questions and Discussions Regarding Authenticity
What's going on with the Heritage 4/23/13 Goetz Auction?
Nosferatu:
Supposedly there is to be a Heritage explanation concerning the Goetz material in tonight's issue of the E-Sylum. This could prove interesting, particularly regarding Bill's comments above.
Sgt.Schultz:
I read the Heritage explanation. There is no question there is some "Hanky Panky" going on....Heritage may very well be telling the truth as best as they know it (just going by what they've been told)....my sources tell me that the Goetz family knows nothing of this massive horde. The secrecy and "misdirection" of an anonymous consignor just having bought the entire collection "smells" worse than a slab of limberger cheese in the hot sun. It makes sense to me that these would have been part of the Guido collection related to the ill-fated Gorny Sale of 1994. I would bet my Pickelhaube that these hubs/dies were part of the Laib collection, and held off the market til the rest of the collection was sold. Then again, perhaps I know nothing!
Haarmann:
Correct you are SS, or close methinks.
Mr. Peplinski of Heritage states in the E-sylum "The dies and hubs were purchased recently from the Goetz family by an anonymous consignor who wished for Heritage Auctions to present them over the course of the next year." I know this to be untrue with 99% certainty. How? I have been in contact with the Goetz family since April 2005 when I was first approached by Karl's grandson, Florian. My most recent contact with family was last week when I provided information to them regarding this hub and die sale. They responded with only their knowledge of the material their mother sold to the ill-fated Gorny&Mosch 68 sale in 1994. The remaining 1% is the possibility that the family chose not to mention this transaction to me which, by my known trusting relationship with them. is unlikely.
I no longer question the authenticity of the material, even with questionable pieces, but I do question whether Heritage does a thorough vetting job on material they consign. I also can't help but wonder why this material wasn't sold in Germany rather than here. I believe the consignor knows why. and it's not because they wanted to ship three tons of metal to the U.S..
Bill:
Same Bill here as quoted above from CoinPeople. I remain bothered by the damaged hub and the die made from the damaged hub as quoted above. It makes me wonder if there are a mix of original pieces here and items made following the war using original hubs. All in all, the collection is worthy of careful study and comparison with known "original" medals to see if the dies do match. It is really hard to do these comparisons from photographs since the angle of the light and the camera in relation to the item can distort small details making comparisons difficult at best.
If I were the consignor, I would be worried about diluting the value of the material by releasing it all with a year. It would seem to me the market for esoteric items such as hubs and dies would be rather limited in comparison to the medals themselves.
Sgt.Schultz:
Did anyone here ever hear the rumor/theory that the Russians stole a quantity of hubs/dies after WW2?
Another question I have is this....didnt Guido, or "someone" strike up a bunch of patterns/mules/etc in Platinum/Gold/silver for Farouk in the fifties? Why wouldnt Guido, IF HE HAD THE HUBS/DIES THEN, go to town and create all types of medals for the King? In fact, he probably could have have had them struck WITH the edge lettering. In fact, he could have struck medals all day long for collectors everywhere. But I am sure it would have been very profitable to create for the King. This situation makes me think that maybe Guido DIDNT have the hubs/dies..and they were somehow squirreled away for a long time, elsewhere. Just bringing up for discussion.
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